I love it when a plan comes together...
Hello all.
Went to Taro (my favourite place at the mo) last night for dinner and then onto a bar after to have several Bohemian Rasberries (lethal). All is in was great fun though still managed to make a prat of myself at the end of the evening.
I had a long chat with one of the folk at Vox last night (before the cocktails) regarding my grand visions for the music community on Vox. It was really encouraging as it's the first time I've spoken to them in ages. I've forwarded on some of your comments and outlined what I think would work.
One thing that I kept rambling on about is the importance of integration with other platforms such as facebook and myspace. I think this represents the most important focus for the development of this as an A&R/Promotional/Distribution tool. The most important development in recent times on vox is the ability to embed widgets in the sidebar and this is what I see as the key to creating an important resource for musicians. In an ideal world you could use your blog as a central portal which gives access to the important parts of your other online elements of promo activity/distribution. Perhaps similar in principle to the way SuperGlu allows someone to stick all their various feeds on one page. I don't know what's possible so it's all just concepts at the moment.
I've contacted the New York office to discuss international A&R involvement in response the the suggestion of centralising the digital A&R process for all territories. A worldwide digital A&R platform is a long way off and the volume of submissions doesn't warrant that just yet. However, as most come from the UK and US, I don't see why the US couldn't have an indieboy equivalent that I could liase with and introduce you to. I've just emailed them now so will find out more details this evening.
I'm still waiting on news from LastFM as regards any possible collaborations. I've asked a friend of mine to speak to Martin Stiksel (the founder) to pass on my ideas and get a feel for what their motivations may be on collaborations. I think it could give some really interesting results as they've recently moved into the unsigned business with their new page.
I also spoke to a colleague of mine as regards physical distribution in the UK stemming from the discussions on perhaps getting a Vox artist or two in shops. It seems that there may be something in place that could give access to many independent record shops around the UK. Though I haven't investigated this in any great depth or know the sort of relationship we have. I'll look into it further once the media player and gigs are sorted.
Gosh, I don't know if this is an interesting post or me just thinking out what I need to be working on.
Comments
That's a sound comment.
I was asked a similar question on the LastFM page a week or so ago (take a look)
There are hundreds of thousands of self producing, self-distributing artists out there who are working at various degrees to make something of a music career. Many don't go to the extent that you're describing, but of course I know that there are a lot that do and as technology develops this is getting easier.
However, if you name your top ten albums of all time, how many of those were put together entirely by an artists own efforts? In saying that I include artwork, video, marketing, distribution, international licensing, publishing etc etc.
If that comprises the majority of your top ten then you should be doing my job (and let me know what they are). However, like most people, your top ten probably comprises of the output of an artists' creativity using their record label as a vehicle to get their product together. Not only getting that product together but being placed in the right environment, with the right people and the removal of any artistic obstacles as regards equipment, funding etc.
I work closely with a number of artists and something that winds me up is the fact that many spend more time updating their myspace and friending than actually writing songs and gigging. I've actually asked an artist recently to help me with promo as they've become such a strong online marketeer. Luckily he's happy with that but his music has totally dropped off his agenda.
Actually, without looking lazy, here's the question I was asked last week with the unedited answer as they had to cut down my rant:
4. With so many tools out there for new artists to record, promote and distribute music themselves, why are record labels still necessary?
I have yet to see much in the way of landmark albums that were entirely the artist's own DIY effort. It's a lovely concept to think someone could make a very important album from beginning to end without the help of a label. The truth is, you wont find a better collection of producers, graphic artists, film makers, marketeers, legal staff, A&R, Finance/Royalty Accounting Staff, International Sales Teams and more than at a label where it's their job every day to get the best out of artists and support them . There's always been a DIY element to the music industry which is very important, but one will never overtake the other I think.
Labels represent a team and an environment which should act as a catalyst to an artist's creativity. The better artists I meet concentrate on their craft first, their online activities second. I also know artists who spend more time developing their myspace than their songs which I don't think is healthy for their music.
We must stop these people from spending so much time away from their music. Its very wasteful.
The online stuff should be left to people who play the drums badly , should have never been allowed near keyboards, but have a talent for sticking their nose in and ,erratically writing almost the plausible promo b/shit.
Oops that's my job spec, but i missed out the tax loss thing.!
Thats why labels are necessary really, keeping the awful musicians who love music busy while leaving the true talent free to create.
I must keep fighting the urge to record myself, where is my tin hat!
Although most of the perceived functions of a record label can be replicated by any artist with a bit of techno savvy, but they still need access to other people to listen or buy the output of their talent
So many people have wonderful websites that only lack one thing. the most important thing, the hardest thing to create...traffic..
They become more dependent on social networking sites to create that focal point. To a degree that role has been taken from the labels.
But there is whole range of the business that even many of the most ardent self producers often neglect. Ok most of it is because of lack of knowledge.
There is always going to be work for a label. Some might say otherwise, if they do ask them for a PID or maybe just the photos from their last launch.
Ps I am writing some software for a new site called Virtual Lunchtime, in which musicians can do some boozy networrking with a variety of old hacks and music writers amd then download their Presskit
I look at the DIY thing like this: If I can make some money, and support myself enough to make music for a living, that would be great. If I can get my music out to enough people who say they love it, and these people show up in droves for my live shows, that's even better. I already know that I can make great music on my own, put it in a cool package, spread it all over the net, and grow my fanbase. But what I want to know is, if I can achieve all this on my own, what would I achieve with the support of a label? Imagine the possibilities. I believe that with the support and access that a label can provide, my music career would be huge. So I continue doing the indie thing, hoping to draw enough attention to myself, so that a label will sign me. In this day and age, it almost seems like an artist should be ashamed of that, and that is a problem with the artist-label system - the image of the labels is tarnished. Meanwhile, music is fragmented, and because it is so comparatively easy to record and release an album these days, we are drowning in garbage from the indies instead of just being occasionally pelted with it by the majors. Don't get me wrong; there is some cool stuff out there, and I think it's great that the internet connects fringe music with appropriate audiences. But I don't make fringe music. I make pop music. And to me, that's not a genre, but a description: popular. Ultimate success for me is to have my music be popular with as many people as possible.
Let's work together. Shiny happy people holding hands...
ahhhhh, Michael Stipe.
In reply to Mr.Indieboy: Im not sure what LastFM page you refer to there, is that a page at LastFM, a group at Vox to do with last FM, please give me a pointer and I will read it.
Regarding the Top Ten selling albums, times have changed and so, to a degree, that philosophy is redundant, i do see the point you are making, but lets face it, most unsigned artists are not looking to reach that kind of High Volume Sales and if that's the only artists that Labels are interested in, then money is obviously their main motive and not artist development. Also, I'd deduce from that, that unless we us artists think we can rival the units shifted by Coldplay or Oasis or Madonna or the Sugababes, we may as well just forget it and not bother even trying to get on the books with the main 4 players.
As for placing the product, artists can get their CD's and DD's out to the major retailer's and e-shop's via companies like cdBaby and Tunestore and LastFM to amazon etc. A label would use the same routes surely.
You also said it winds you up that artists spend time updating myspace and friending, rather than writing songs and doing gigs. Well, isn't it RCA that suggested all the new artists that wanted to submit demos should join VOX and make a blog and keep it updated, wasn't it RCA that suggested at least 6 audio files, wasn't it you that said keep adding to them because if you visit and nothing has been added, that will not be good. Wasn't it RCA that stated, you will find us, there's no need to bang on your door. Wasn't it RCA that said you'd be looking for the work that generated interest and you would find it. Does that not incite self promotion at Vox and networking to create interest.
Was it RCA then that motivated everyone to do exactly what winds you up and exactly what the end quote is critical of. The artists on-line activity is exposure, advertising, marketing, globally accessible aids for promotion, it's on-line stores, a route to sales, it's web radio, it's making your product visible and available to be auditioned and hopefully purchased.
I am interested in this, who are the main sellers in volume right now at RCA, Annie Lennox perhaps, Leona Lewis maybe, are we expected to compete with that? I'd rather not try to compete with those two and who can expect to sell as many albums as Thriller did. If abyone here at Vox loading up demos for submission thinks they are going to, id be surprsied.
I gotta say, sometimes I dunno if I even want back on, even though the train is completely new and redesigned. I just like hearing other new stuff, I like getting feedback, and I like communities online where I can talk to others who have similar interests.
I came to Vox with one simple idea...be heard. I didn't put a caveat on who was listening, or how much. If someone enjoys what I do, that's awesome. If they tell me as much, even better.
Sure, it's funny to watch everyone get onto every new social networker. I just started a new account on an alpha of a new one being run by hollywood types and it's tied into a TV show. Everyone thinks they are gonna be better than myspace, or facebook, or vox, or whatever, but they all have their strengths. In a digital world, a mouse click to a new location isn't a big deal, is it? I am not sure. I do think that the competition between them all is good for all of us, because they improve services and offerings and abilities, and put more power and control in the users hands.
I like designing my covers, making the music, and being social and accessible to fans.
I want someone else to talk to Joe Blow about sales numbers and getting placed into Wal Mart. I just want the person who does that for me to be honest and accurate in reporting back how the meeting went.
Wow, this is all a lot of nothing I've posted when I should be doing this remix. Sorry.
That'd be great. Get him registered and I'll have him write a guest post on one of the label blogs.
IB
It's their new nowformaband page:
http://nowformaband.last.fm/
Ok, a lot to get through here.
There's maintaining a blog, then there's a never ending crusade of trying to add millions of friends to your myspace or whatever. Ultimately you need to be making music during most of the time you have available if you want do something good. The biggest communicator of quality/image/whatever is your end result, your music. If it's shite no amount of clever marketing, friend acquisition or insight into it's creation is going to convince someone of it being otherwise.
As for 'wasn't it RCA' thing it's true RCA/Columbia/Sony BMG are encouraging all of you to participate and contribute regularly. I see this as really important as a method of communication with the labels and each other. But this shouldn't be a monopoly of your time. I'm not sure how long the average blog takes, or how long it takes to upload a track. But it's usually measured in minutes rather than hours.
It's commendable to hear the various efforts you have made and exposure you have received as a result. More artists should operate like this. It should also be considered that labels do have restrictions as regards their investments. That's what working with an artist is. As the music model is changing majors are developing the abilities to work with many smaller, more niche acts. This can be though joint ventures with indie labels, setting up imprits with their own teams, development deals etc. Though the tradition has been to aim for acts that generate a higher return in investment as their methods involve initial high investments. Unfortuately if someone's music has very little commercial appeal, it doesn't make for sound larger investments when placed alongside signings who are very much in demand.
Smaller investments are always feasable and are often quite important as regards catalogue, though they have to be as carefully considered as bigger deals. It's great to work with loads of niche artists instead of a few huge ones. But every one of those acts irrespective of size has to have certain functions/resources in place which have to be considered carefully. Every deal has a legal team, A&R, Accounts, Marketing, Radio, Press, etc. Finite resources which apply in every case irrespective of type of deal/artist. Smaller indie labels tend to have one flagship act on which they concentrate most of their resouces. This is often how many niche acts emerge in the market, an entire label focusing on them.
There's been loads of times I've been bashed over the head with the examples of the Artic Monkeys, the View, or similar, as poor creative A&R decisions because they're just another young guitar band with nice hair, a very popular gripe at the moment. The fact of the matter is they've sold masses of records, and they're amazing at what they do. People have wanted it, and bought it, a lot. This isn't because of mass investment to convince the market to buy as the consumer is too savvy be be influenced into buying something they don't actually want. We witness this proved often with some terrible signings across the industry.
It has been mentioned that there is now a market for everything, which there is and we're lucky to have the musical access we have now. But the channels vary drastically when it comes to communication to market and distribution when you leave the areas of the mainstream consumer (a term which is covering more markets each year). Those channels, and methods of being able to work with them are developing more everyday as part of a more encompassing industry model. But until the model is developed for a comprehensive sliding scale of investments and strategy for all market fragments, and assoicated acts, it's something that has to be delt with using what we have. Which is a combination of majors, larger indie's, smaller indie's, self-release, promo companies, myspace etc.
Hope this covers all bases. Let me know if not.
IB
Sorry to quote you...:
"The biggest communicator of quality/image/whatever is your end result, your music. If it's shite no amount of clever marketing, friend acquisition or insight into it's creation is going to convince someone of it being otherwise"
I utterly agree with you.
The proof is in the pudding...... My demo (Vox page etc...) is my calling card. I say "point your mouse there, if you like it, get in touch...". Simple. If the music is strong enough that should do it. All the photos and artsy fartsy posts other artists/bands put up - I go to their blog and very rarely do I find any music anywhere near as strong as the promo/presentation. Oh, I am so gonna get some harsh PM's now..! Damn it!
But, they believe strongly in their music, so they feel correct to strongly promote it. C'est la vie.
I spent one evening a couple o' weeks back making my page look pretty. I balanced a camera on a chair in my studio, stood there posing like a wally, resized a pic for my banner, and that was that.
But the bones of it are 2 simple demo's (the simplest and most complete of my work), twinned with corresponding videos so people can quickly and briefly see me in action, in leiu of any forthcoming gigs. Hopefully that's an indication that I'm serious and professional. (I'm in York anyway - do A&R types travel that far...?!). 'Updating' my blog will be as required to showcase new work or news... not just some every-other-day post just to seem to appear 'active' in the community.
I could have artwork by Van Gogh but it wouldn't stop that inevitable 10 second switch in an A&R guys/gals head that says "Ooh, interesting, talented" or "This isn't great - I hope they didn't spent lots of money on that photo-shoot, and the afternoon they spent doing it would've been more usefully spent sat on a park bench somewhere writing something better.."
'nuff said.
By the way - what order do you listen to submissions...? I see the "your submission was listened to..." tag on stuff that was posted that same day, when I've yet to see that tag on any of my stuff....... and that makes me too sad for a Friday..!
;-)
Cheers
Ryan
ps far too much use of the italic button. Please disable it. Please.
Yes we have people who travel as far as York. :-)
As to what order ask Vox!?! I go through the submissions pretty much as they come in but people often re-submit their stuff to the A&R group so sometimes I have to skips loads of tracks that I've heard before to get to new submissions. I'm working on a better method of going through submissions currently. The listened to flag often helps me a great deal to get past tracks I've already listened to.
Ahhhh.... Then I'll just assume it's been listened to, and go back to my job at the cracker factory then...!
"Aiming at publishing" here I come!
Cheers
Ryan
;-)
Nah... after my first post I got PM'd by Columbia Demos saying they enjoyed the track and do let IB know if/when I was gigging. My track got added to their favourites. Granted, that may be a standard 'rubber stamp' response to a new Vox'er on A&R, but hey - made me feel good. So I put more tracks/videos up, and haven't heard a sausage. So wondered whether "the stuff at the top" (which 9/10 times is Artless Children....) just gets listened too, or whether there's some sort of system in place to make sure everyone gets CD's ear.
Otherwise, it's a case of checking when IB seems to be listening to stuff, or responding to comments - and quick, add an exclaimation mark to an "as yet unlistened to" post so it pops up at the top and has a chance of being listened to!
Paging Oprah!
Nope, that's not the standard response. I get stuff from Columbia all the time and dont' remember this coming through so I'll have another look.
As for the gigging, stick it up on the calendar thing so I know when you're about.
Thanks mate!
We're aiming for some support slots in the New Year - will let you know.
I'll leave your blog alone now, promise! Crikey! What is this, a forum...?! Heh-heh!
;-)
Ryan
Of course, but it's on a case by case basis. I couldn't give a generic "This is what companies do with..." because each case is unique. Sometimes I hear something that really appeals to me yet it doesn't tick any of the usual boxes.
I'm working with someone at the moment who was with a terrible band and had terrible songs whereas they have an really distinctive voice which under the right circumstances I think could do really well. I've suggested they take time away from their metal band and team up with this downtempo/electro producer. So far it sounds a bit like lamb. Considering she sounds like Skin from Skunk Anansee that quite a move from what she was doing previously.
It comes down to a series of decisions based on what they have and what they don't, and as a label what we can provide.