Is Gigging in London Really All That?
I was at the Dublin Castle last night to see Victors and had a really nice evening. Plus I didn't get drunk which was a bonus. That's part of my new healthy regieme.
What do I do again?
To be honest, last night was probably the first time I really felt like some kind of 'A&R', rather than a chap at a gig who works for a label trying to stumble across a good act. Mainly because I was able to read the lineups on the walls for the forthcoming weeks and recognise a lot of names and knew some of them personally, aswell as the various stickers dotted about the place. Plus on watching the band I was able to think beyond are they 'good' or 'bad' confidently and think objectively about what I was witnessing. I do feel like I'm going to be found out one day or something and ejected. "Him, there! Yes that's the guy. Posing as some digital A&R twat, get the dartgun". It's difficult to know when you're actually doing a good job.
On going into the venue I noticed a CODA sticker on the door and saw Shortwave Fade listed as playing on Monday. This gave me a bit of a paternal feeling and grinned for a while. It's been really great to see the community grow and getting a feel for who's out there. There's a couple of other bands playing who I want to see and introduce to the whole Vox thing too as I've heard them about and had mates rave on to me about them.
V For Victors
Ok, Victors. Just as with bands like the Standards it's very obvious when you see a band that's been playing for a while which was apparent here, even though they had a stand-in, in the form of fromer Ultrasound guitarist Richard Green. The first thing you notice is a seemingly effortless tightness to the playing, and the other thing tends to be amazing equipment. Fantastic amps, Rickenbacker guitars, and Gibson organ and a Fender Bass Piano (!?!?). (I looked for one of those Fenders for about a year). The keyboardist had a true Manzarek set up. Musically, can hear a lot of influences in there which gave me an early 90's Pulp/Soundtrack or Our Lives feel. Whereas tracks like 4400 show a blues-rock influence which gave a nice stompy interjection. Really tight set and enjoyable to watch. If you're in Leeds get along to a gig.
Should Bands Be Breaking Their Ass Getting to London?
There were a couple of moments of true brilliance which I felt really happy to witness in the exclusive crowd of about 10 people. This also posed a problem. It's rare that you get much in the way of passing trade in such venues, which made me think. Are you better off playing smaller towns where there is more of a hunger for live music, or playing London where the more historic venues are? I for one know that our guys travel all over the country (and beyond) to see people perform so is London really the centre of everything that is used to be? Don't get me wrong, passing trade does still exist and there are those music lovers who turn up at venues just to see who's playing but this takes hard work on the part of the promoter. Dirtyboots' night has been built up over a long time and as a result people usually turn up because it's a Dirtyboots night, rather than who's playing. That's because he only books great bands, rather than many promoters who'll book whoever can pull a crowd. Plus you can only play a gig like the 100 Club, at the 100 Club. Hmm, not sure where I'm going with this but it did get me thinking. Should you play at home or away?
Back To Business, Changing Vox Music Bits
Further to the suggestions made in the various discussions here and there, very slowly but surely, I think I'm making some progress as regards the music developments in the A&R element of Vox. Hopefully tonight, or tomorrow night I'm going to be speaking to someone from their product team about what can be done with this platform. So far I've been thinking it would be good to have a series of music tools for artists. Maybe even an option for a 'music profile' similar to the upgrades you make in the likes of myspace or facebook. Obviously they're a different style of platform whereas this is blogging, but it would be good for the tools to be there if wanted I think:
Media player - either we (labels) develop something, or we get a Vox bespoke player integrated. I would image they would be far better for the job as the level of integration into the community would be far better with less margin for bugs.
Hit Counter - This could mean, page views, track plays, who's been playing. I'm curious to find out what's possible. I've embedded a 3rd party counter on mine for the past couple of months and it's nice to see traffic.
IP Map - I.e.Like the thing I posted the other day, but sidebar compatible. It's nice to know where your readers are, and who they are.
Degree of Adjustable Layout - The beauty of this platform is it's simplicity and ease at setting up. However, it would be useful to be able to format the size of the side bar (within reasonable limits) to accomodate larger 3rd party widgets.
Syndication - Just as there was Sega or Nintendo kids, Nike or Reebok, PS3 or Xbox, there will always be Myspace people, Facebook people, Bebo people etc etc. However, everyone dabbles to a degree. I've got hundreds of accounts in everything, very little of which I use. However, if I could tie the ones I do use together a little more on a central blog I'd be over the moon. Vox's ease at linking to outside sources is great. Plus that whole preview page thing when you hover over the link is excellent too. I think this is an area that can really be capitalised on. It would be great to have a page in which focus could be drawn to other pages and content also drawn in. Or, take pieces of your blog and place elsewhere. This is what the likes of Reverbnation seem to thrive on. I managed to make my vox blog a facebook widget using widgetbox, it was horrifically difficult for me. Wouldn't it be great if your blog could be packaged up and included on your preferred page with functionality you'l like to share with others? Or vice versa, if you're more of a 'Vox' person then bring the other elements of your digital identity into one place.
Anyway, have a think about that and add to whatever you think needs adding too, or come up with something else.
Back To Music Matters
Back onto music. I listened to Daniel Flay and the Irreparable Guilt last night. Really great stuff, there's no track listing but I LOVE THIS TRACK, LISTEN TO IT NOW. Quite Snow Patrol in places, but more interesting. Any track that makes me feel different, think of someone or somewhere, or feel like a different person is good in my book. I've had a poke around their blog and their myspace and I'm going to get onto seeing them live (if they'll reply to my damn message).
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Gigs (for the next few days)
Quite one tonight - Dave Hughes is playing at Varsova in Paisley, can't find him in Vox though. Would the real Dave Huges please stand up?
The Standards are playing at the Enterprise tomorrow at 8.30 onwards. If you haven't seen them live and you live in London you need to see them as part of your musical education. As much a part of the fabric of the live circuit as plastic cups and sticky carpets. Excellent songs and a great spectacle live.
Also playing tomorrow are Coda, Alright the Captain and the Avangelists at the Common Rooms in Dungannon. Looks like it kicks off around 9ish. Just had a listen to the Alright the Captain stuff and it's really good. Coda are great of course too, but I've said that before. Check dem.
For those that couldn't get enough on the first night, Coda and Alright the Captain are at Lavery's Bunker in Belfast on Saturday. Looks like it might be in the afternoon but check the sites for details.
Runner are at Feeling Gloomy (?!), Carling Bar Academy in Islington. Go take a looook.
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Ahhhh. What a long post, finished now. To keep thing random I was walking around the park near work and realised how lucky I am to work near a park in Autumn and felt all poetic n such. So I took these.
Hope all is well with you.
Comments
Great post as always, home or away? well having been a promoter for 3 years and now a Manager for 6 years its a good mix of both, keep your friends happy and play the local gigs now and then and showcase in London when you can.
Try to stay away from those ''pay to play venues''
As for A&R traveling then we have to take your word for it. Most bands belive if you wanna get A&R to see you then London its has to be. even a top producer I know has never wanted to live in London but moved this week as he will get more work being based there.
So dont bankcrupt your selfs to play in London but keep your profile up. If labels or A&R know good venues that may also be helpfull as we know you guys hunt in packs..haha
Its the old million dollar question? my job is to keep all the bases covered, not over hype or miss out on a good quality gigs. When your young and starting you have to gig to learn your craft and get some miles under your belt. When you feel your ready, do the best recording you can and keep at it..even if you get knock backs...belive in what you do.
You have had all your life to write your first album then if you get a deal the pressure is on for a 2nd great one 3rd,4th and so on.
The Enemy didnt pack venues in Coventry before the got signed and even when they did get signed to Stiff there first show at a local festival was only in front of few friends and locals, but throw a Million pounds at them and boom there are huge and will play to 8,000 in Coventry in April 08. So no right or wrong way but do whats best for you. but enjoy it.
The comments are spot on (about gigs in London) but what we've really noticed is that London bands (in particular) turn up at the venue, with their posse of loyal fans and then they all disappear as soon as they've played their set. That in turn means that out of townies don't get to play to a new audience (which is really what its all about) just the loyal fans who travel down to see them in a famous venue. Our view is that its worth the expense to get there if we can perform to a new group of people - even if its just 10. This doesn't happen in Manchester or Leeds - the crowd and other bands all stay to take in the whole gig.
The Vox music bits are on the right lines too. I think that if Vox is the specialist blog site, Reverbnation specialises in music player and fanreach (ie sending newletters and gathering fans), Frappr provides tracking, and mySpace/Facebook social networking then they should each be easily inter linkable. It would be great to drop a code into myspace and get Vox blog on their for example. And obviously to easily drop all of those into Vox too.
Hey!
Thanks again for giving us a shout-out in your journal, its muchly appreciated and also very very positive to see A&R recognising the hardwork bands do to promote themselves!!!
On the subject in matter, we went to London to gig, becuase it seems to have the most concentrate music industry scene in the UK, and although the internet is vastly helping bands get noticed, nothing is really gonna compare to seeing the band up close and personal!
To narrow that gap, the best thing I can advise a band to do, is try to get someone with a good video camera to get down to your gigs, and get yourself on youtube!!!! It could be the nearest thing A&R people get to ever seeing you live!
I must lastly whole-heartedly apologise to Camden for the major sticker-fest we had goin when we were over playing. Unfortunately the weekend pub crawl led to most Camden pubs being CODA-pimped!
Right.......now let the weekend gig madness begin!!!!
On another note.... I've just bought my first apple macbook and audio USB interface to start my own side-project.....macbook bedroom recordings....the future of recording???......
We are concentrating on gigging in Manchester at our own events and even then only once every three months or so, unless something special comes up like a festival or a support slot - its important to keep it as fresh as possible and if we promote it right we can easily get over a hundred down - that wouldn't happen if we played every week all over the place, plus we try to make each gig a bit special, give it a hook to interest people. It's worked well for us so far.
With regards to London, I had a think the other day about how many people would be likely to turn up to see us in a London venue and it looked reasonably healthy. A great many of our friends, real, virtual or otherwise, and the odd fan, live in the big smoke so I dare say we could raise a decent crowd, so it'd be worth the trip.
One thing I have noticed which is very important is that you only make new fans when you are playing to a full venue and everyone is into it. So there's really no point playing to three people, the bar man and his dog, they are unlikely to come and see you again!
The only other places I would consider at the moment would be clubs and venues outside of cities who have a regular crowd regardless of who is playing - e.g. Trades Club in Hebden Bridge - they are often open to new ideas. I would also like to play some gigs in Europe as we've got a strong following online from outside the UK, but would need a management company to help us with this.
Playing at established nights is OK if you fit into their "thing" - not being an indie band can make it a little harder to find appropriate places to play. Still onwards and upwards.
I'm back from holiday now!
Best wishes all,
Ben
I am currently having more fun playing out of town, I'm in London on Wednesday night at the 12 Bar Club and Dundee on Thursday at the University Union.
I love playing London as I think you get a different 'gig going' crowd there to Swindon. I play in Swindon regularly but venture out to London whenever I can.
No matter what venue I play, I find that people actually listen to you rather than talking and shouting all over you...its all about reaching out to as many poeple as you possible can. For me London is like a large collection of local 'Towns' all grouped together that are all ripe for picking e.g. Camden/Clapham/Shoreditch etc. Of course its imprortant not too over saturate yourself but a gig here and there never goes amiss.
I've also started playing in Cardiff, Newport and Manchester recently.
I have had some great gigs in London, of course - my first gig at the Hope & Anchor was fantastic. The place was packed and the whole audience was in dead silence from the moment I opened my mouth to the moment I walked off stage. My gigs at that venue since then, though, have been considerably poorer, with all the same problems people have detailed above - one band decides to bring a shitload of people, all of whom either vanish without trace or - even worse - stay there and keep drinking and babbling on at the top of their lungs, oblivious to the others still on stage trying to make a dent in their perception.
The fact that promoters in London almost all require a certain number of people brought along by each artist is also extremely damaging to the London scene. After all, if I wanted to play to a crowd of my mates I could do it at home.
So, my strategy of late has been to largely ignore London as a city, as such, and approach it like someone said above, as a collection of small towns. There are a bunch of decent venues right here in my local area (archway) - the hideaway, the shaftesbury, nambucca, and a load more down in kentish town and camden, so I'm thinking my method over the next few months should be to just stick to an area about 10 minutes' bus journey from here and see if I can cobble together something resembling a "scene" around me.
Having said that, I'm on at the Bedford tomorrow night and that's way down south, but I suppose it's still good to go further afield every now and then.